Omg I love it. He totally would. He's a nice enough dude but I feel like he would do that to be pragmatic. He was so upset that his town was falling apart because of the ghosts, so who better than to fix it than a Blackfin captain quickly rising through the "ranks" who's also an elite in Krethus, one he already met who's from a powerful family too. I do think Vanhanen genuinely wanted to give one to her, I mean if he could use TWO of them to bully the other captains so easily then of course he'd give one to a captain he likes and who saved his life twice. But I like your idea so much I kinda want to go with that instead. I mean whether he told Vanhanen to do that or not, you're 100% right about all the other stuff, he saw the same potential in Maaya and probably knew they'd meet up.

ALSO, while we're talking about that, let's not forget that Maaya still has a goldpin. Adelaide used Vanhanen's to call in the fleet at the end but she also gave Maaya's back to her in thanks for saving her life and country. I forget that sometimes, that even though the world is saved and everything, after it's all over this poor girl still has the ability to call in a favor more powerful than anything the entire Sol family could LOL. Side note on that, I'm glad MAF kind of quantified the different levels of pins and what they meant. They made a big deal about goldpins in GW but I didn't really get it until that one line that was like "if a copperpin could be used to escape a war a goldpin could be used to start one." I mean shit you could use a silverpin to put a hit out on someone?? No wonder everyone was like "look at this dork using a whole ass goldpin to take Pirate Uber to Krethus."

Jade wrote: ↑

Tue May 11, 2021 2:31 am

"look at this dork using a whole ass goldpin to take Pirate Uber to Krethus."

This is the best sentence I've read in this thread omfg

Jade wrote: ↑

Tue May 11, 2021 2:31 am

ALSO, while we're talking about that, let's not forget that Maaya still has a goldpin. Adelaide used Vanhanen's to call in the fleet at the end but she also gave Maaya's back to her in thanks for saving her life and country. I forget that sometimes, that even though the world is saved and everything, after it's all over this poor girl still has the ability to call in a favor more powerful than anything the entire Sol family could LOL.

Omg I did actually forget about this. I wonder what someone like Maaya would use one for! Though I think personally, after everything she's been through, she wouldn't want to touch it, she'd just be like nope, I'm done, no more of this stuff, I'm safe and happy now so I'm d o n e. Adelaide would probably try to get her to do something goofy with it, Vanhanen would tell her he's always happy to start a fight for her, and Emil... actually I think she'd get the best value from Emil. It seems like he's so influential and powerful and he would have the solution to any problem. Especially now that the ghosts are gone and the marauders got destroyed, the Blackfins are getting more powerful so Anorath should be nice and busy again. And they're close enough that she could take a day trip. Ugh now I want to read a story about this.

"pirate uber" though made me laugh

So like y'all are talking about characters you want to know more about, but i want to know about the whole world they live in. We get a few hints that it's a lot bigger and more dangerous/mysterious than people think? Like cool, the girls mastered libris, but there's also the giant voids, the mist monsters that kill you if you aren't asleep, the demon that takes over children's bodies and makes them murder their families, some weird magic that warps spacetime or whatever the heck it is that made Maaya run up like 50 flights of stairs in a 2 story ship, like... it seems like there's a lot of weird dangerous magical stuff out there?? It makes libris look pretty tame by comparison.

As far as Emil goes, I think I'd go so far as to say he's the reason Adelaide begins to start fighting ghosts in Selenthia. I remember in GW that, when he asks Maaya to put on the "show" for the town, he reasons that people need to see good examples of libris to counter the negative image of it so as not to let the fearmongers have control of the narrative. (He ends up being validated, because it's the eyewitness accounts in these towns that helps prove Maaya's innocence, so I think this was another way he was helping her, even if he didn't say it.) In MAF, Adelaide basically makes the same argument when her officers try to convince her not to fight because of how Selenthians view libris. I have to imagine Emil gave her the same argument he gave Maaya when they met years before. I don't know if that was on purpose, and I think Adelaide would be capable of coming to the same conclusion on her own, but if I wanted to headcanon it, that'd be something I could point to in terms of Emil's far-reaching influence.

About the pins, I did like that when they brought aboard the man trying to flee Krethus (I can't remember his name) Inga told Adelaide that in the past Blackfin captains used goldpins to start wars/bring big fleets together, but that they don't really do it anymore. Then not only do we see Vanhanen do exactly that, but that ends up being what Adelaide herself does in GW. I think it's nice if only to show how much Adelaide has accepted herself as one of them when she resisted it so much to start.

And speaking of Adelaide, I think she deserves more credit for her creativity, considering she essentially developed the steam engine during the age of sail...

Lindsay wrote: ↑

Sun May 23, 2021 12:05 am

So like y'all are talking about characters you want to know more about, but i want to know about the whole world they live in. We get a few hints that it's a lot bigger and more dangerous/mysterious than people think? Like cool, the girls mastered libris, but there's also the giant voids, the mist monsters that kill you if you aren't asleep, the demon that takes over children's bodies and makes them murder their families, some weird magic that warps spacetime or whatever the heck it is that made Maaya run up like 50 flights of stairs in a 2 story ship, like... it seems like there's a lot of weird dangerous magical stuff out there?? It makes libris look pretty tame by comparison.

YEAH I mean this is why more of Cymreiges would be great because she's got some fucking cool stories. And even if she's not telling the truth you know weird shit's out there, if only because of GS and because of the huge sky voids in GW. I thought it was hilarious that at the end of GS everyone is like "we have literally no explanation for any of this so please just blow it up."

Also is anyone else disappointed by a lack of sea shanties in MAF despite getting 20 entire chapters with Adelaide? Missed opportunity!

Rebekah wrote: As far as Emil goes, I think I'd go so far as to say he's the reason Adelaide begins to start fighting ghosts in Selenthia. I remember in GW that, when he asks Maaya to put on the "show" for the town, he reasons that people need to see good examples of libris to counter the negative image of it so as not to let the fearmongers have control of the narrative. (He ends up being validated, because it's the eyewitness accounts in these towns that helps prove Maaya's innocence, so I think this was another way he was helping her, even if he didn't say it.) In MAF, Adelaide basically makes the same argument when her officers try to convince her not to fight because of how Selenthians view libris. I have to imagine Emil gave her the same argument he gave Maaya when they met years before. I don't know if that was on purpose, and I think Adelaide would be capable of coming to the same conclusion on her own, but if I wanted to headcanon it, that'd be something I could point to in terms of Emil's far-reaching influence.

I like that! Emil would totally ask her to do the show specifically so she could have a bunch of public support later. We know what he SAID about wanting the town to come back but he was never completely honest anyway, and there was a lot he didn't tell her until later. Like when he just casually dropped that he'd known about the river barricade the whole time lol. It's probably canon let's just assume it is. Emil's a scary smart dude. I wonder what it would be like to be his enemy. He likes Maaya so she gets to see the good side of him but what could he do if he hated you?

Rebekah wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 11, 2021 4:42 pm

And speaking of Adelaide, I think she deserves more credit for her creativity, considering she essentially developed the steam engine during the age of sail...

Lol right? Like she wasn't an expert steamsmith but she was good at the rest of the sailing stuff, and she was really creative. I think that gets missed sometimes because Adelaide usually likes things a specific way and she's really picky, but she's got a great imagination too. She really did excel in a lot of ways, like in terms of thinking on her feet and being a strategist during battle, i know the crew teases her for being overbearing and she didn't have a lot of confidence in school but she is smart.

As for what Emil could do if he hated you? Pretty sure he could do whatever he wanted. He could probably ruin your life without you ever seeing him lol. I did like that Maaya and Saber talked about maaaaybe killing Rahu and I forget who but one of them said something like, a man like that doesn't make enemies that easily unless he's got a backup plan. Which helped explain why they didn't just get a ghost to murder him, I had been wondering lol. And I think Emil probably knew that too. He was more than happy to join in once Maaya had an army but until then he knew that she had to play a public image game against Rahu. Here was a dude who could get the whole military after this poor girl, so Emil was like ok, we need to start winning hearts and minds in her favor to fight back against that and that's how we beat him. So if you really want to boil it down, Emil basically played a global PR campaign war against Rahu and won. Not to say Maaya didn't hold her own but like, I feel like if Emil hadn't convinced Maaya to put on that show, Adelaide's attempt to get her criminal record wiped wouldn't have worked, you know? Her trying to stay hidden would mean no one could speak up for her. He says as much when Apostol picks her up to take her to Levien.

All this to say I think that if Emil wanted you to suffer or die, you would suffer or die, and there's nothing you could do about it, because the man can play a long game just as well as a short one, and he would do it with a smile on his face LOL.

Hannah wrote: ↑

Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:34 am

Here was a dude who could get the whole military after this poor girl, so Emil was like ok, we need to start winning hearts and minds in her favor to fight back against that and that's how we beat him. So if you really want to boil it down, Emil basically played a global PR campaign war against Rahu and won.

THIS convinced me right here LOL. Dude was an A class schemer. This is now an Emil appreciation thread because my man came through big for Maaya. He's sketchy af and purposefully keeps a bunch of secrets but he's also always two steps ahead of everyone and sounds like he is having a GREAT time doing it. I even forgot that when Maaya arrived in Anorath, by the next morning Emil already knew exactly what happened over in Sark. He knew about the fact she was being hunted before she did, so you know what he probably got info on what Rahu was planning (to get the military after her) before anyone else since he I think had his people over there to ask around about Maaya. He SEEMED like he was already familiar with Rahu too and didn't like him and got to use the war as an excuse to get rid of him. He kinda seems like Selenthia's underground kingmaker.

I don't know I just like him a lot and the more I think about what he did the cooler I think he is. I think maybe we weren't SUPPOSED to think of him as a super influential or powerful dude, just kinda mysterious, but everything people are saying in here is true. So maybe that was on purpose, that on the surface he doesn't seem like too much, but that's how he wants to come across because he likes keeping his secrets, but when you put it all together you see the man has got some power. Like you said, dude's just waging a global PR war and it worked LOL.

While I've been thinking about the more subtle parts of the book, I got to thinking about Inga and Adelaide. At first, the way I understood their relationship was that Inga's feelings toward Adelaide flew mostly under the radar, that Adelaide was kind of suspicious about Inga but that it didn't go much beyond that. But the more I think about it, the more I feel like Adelaide was very aware of it, and that it was a mutual understanding between the two. Hannah already pointed out the meaning behind the "goes where I cannot follow" thing, which I thought was a good catch. But there's also the several times that Adelaide asks how Inga is so good at comforting her and offering her just what she needs, and while at first Inga says she's just doing her job, eventually she starts saying something like "That will have to wait for another time," basically outright implying there's more to it than her just doing her job. Then you have The Scene in Inga's quarters where she explains her past, which wraps everything up. It might not have clicked immediately, but I think that was the moment it came together for Adelaide, because by the end of the book, the way the two of them talk has shifted, like the one instance where Inga (who is always staunchly professional) calls Adelaide by her name rather than her title when giving her life advice. By then I get the impression that their relationship has changed a little even if it's an unspoken recognition (or maybe they talked about it "off screen" or something).

At least that's how I read it. MAF made their relationship so much more interesting and I really like exploring things like this. I also like it because it's so subtle, but still meaningful. It's an interesting contrast to, say, Maaya and Saber, where Saber blatantly flirts with Maaya just to embarrass her and their closeness could not be any clearer lol.

I think you're probably right. It was a good setup for Inga being chosen as commander (even though she just kind of took the position herself when David left lol). It was a neat way to see Adelaide growing up too. Idk MAF just made Inga one of my more favorite characters and I love her relationship with Adelaide. As soon as I picked up on the fact that Inga kind of looked after her like her own daughter I was SOLD because that shit is my jam. It surprised me which is why I think I like it so much. Maaya and Saber, we already know how that is. Same with a lot of the other relationships from GW, and there are some new ones in MAF but of course so many people DIE so it doesn't end up lasting. But this was surprising, it just fit so nice.

So now of course in those few scenes where Skarin and Inga talk, even if it's really brief I'm just like oh look, mom and dad are talking LOL.

Yes, I liked that a lot. And that comes back to why I like this series as much as I do. As interesting and exciting as the plot gets, what I remember the most are character moments and relationships and growth. I don't know that I would be half as invested in the story if the characters weren't as great as they are.

That does remind me though, I wish we could have gotten to see more out of Halvar and Gunnar. After Inga got her big reveal I thought we would, but we didn't. We know that they grew up together and that Gunnar is married, but apart from what we see, we don't learn too much more. I don't feel like I can complain too much since the series is over 1600 pages of character building, but considering they're almost as involved as Inga in many ways (and even more than David), it would have been nice to learn more about them, too.

While we're talking about stuff we want to know more about... Alfred?? He's mentioned a few times but we never actually see him, all we know is that everyone else out by the river is kind of terrified of him. Who is this mysterious under water ghost man!

Hannah wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 13, 2020 7:29 pm

And we even got that little story where some dude calls in his silverpin to escape town on Adelaide's ship, which is probably big on her mind when Maaya comes. Can you imagine? She's probably thinking, oh no, who's on my ship this time, another murderer? Except, it's the girl she's got a crush on! The relief is probably INTENSE and might impact why she doesn't ask questions at first.

I went looking for this because I was thinking about this specifically recently. I remembered someone mentioned it but I couldn't remember who lol. I thought Tagor showing up was a nice touch, and yes Adelaide was probably relieved it wasn't another Tagor situation when Maaya came along. But it must have also been agonizing. When Tagor shows up, Adelaide almost refuses to let him on board until Inga convinces her to. Later, Inga explains that the whole system is built upon trust and honor and the strength of their word. The whole of Blackfin "society" only functions so long as everyone honors their promises. She really hammers in the trust part.

So when Maaya comes on board, she's already "lying" about Saber because she thinks no one can see her. Then Saber appears to spy on Adelaide. Adelaide only experienced this once before with Tagor, and she didn't like it, and the only way she was able to be convinced at all was Inga driving home the point about trust, so I have to imagine it either threw her for a loop or shook her confidence when she saw what she thought was so much dishonesty coming from the girl she liked. It could explain her visceral reaction, which was basically pulling the truth out of Maaya under the threat of killing her best friend. Adelaide doesn't strike me as the kind of person to do something like that lightly. She's bold, but not mean.

It makes me wonder if Inga knew, too. If she did, maybe she went along with it because she knew this could be a learning experience for Adelaide that couldn't be taught with a lecture. (I assume she would have known Adelaide would get told off and feel ashamed.) Maybe she didn't, but I wouldn't put it past her lol. I also think this is why Adelaide dealt with Maaya herself. Before, she just had Inga deal with Tagor while she went to go think and get away from it. But in this case she probably felt such a strong feeling of betrayal, compounded by how uncomfortable she already felt, and was desperate to get an answer from Maaya by any means necessary because the dishonesty just bothered her that much.

In case it's not obvious I still skim these books from time to time and there are still parts that get me thinking lol.

^ Love that. Now you mention it Adelaide doing that to Saber was a little extreme for her but I get it. At first when I read it I was like damn she's reacting that hard over Saber maybe reading some private paperwork, but now it's like oh yeah, she's still struggling to deal with helping people based on favors alone and if anyone can help with that it's the girl she's got a crush on except nope now she's proving to be a liar too. She was doing better at accepting all the Blackfin stuff but she wasn't totally okay with all of it so yeah that probably took her right back to the dude who was accused of murder she helped escape.

SPEAKING of Adelaide though, since I still think about this sometimes too... I had a realization the other night, like she's amazing and everything, but like... she only has her ship because her parents got it for her. Which when I think about it is not only insane but a sign of just how much her parents loved her even if they couldn't always express it well and they clashed. They were frustrated with her constantly for her performance in school and everything (or, excuse me, private rich people tutoring), and they had all these disagreements, but they were still like, you know what, this is our daughter, she's turning 16, we love her, and we know she likes boats and sailing and stuff, so let's buy her an entire goddamn custom built ship with room for a crew of over 80 people that has only the latest sailing tech and make it one of the fastest ships on the sea. And tbh now I feel a little more respect for her parents, because they really were trying. They were kinda shit at it for a while, but like, clearly they were paying some attention to her and they wanted her to be happy and they thought she was worth something this huge, and that their love for her was bigger than any disagreements.

And again, they were complete shit at it for a while lol. But the more I think about it I'm just like, holy shit, for her sweet sixteen they bought her a whole entire ship. Part of it is like yeah they're rich ok, but it's also like... they didn't have to. Or they could have gotten her some sailing books or a telescope or built her a little boat for going out into the bay or something, but no, they went and made her the Windfire instead. They knew what she liked and they spared no expense at all to make sure they got her something great. I don't think i would have really thought about this so much without MAF because we complete missed her growing up and her parents perspective and everything, but yeah.

See, I wonder if I'm more jaded because my perspective on that was that, yes, they got her the ship because she showed a love of sailing, but I figured they also thought about how they could use that to their advantage too. Like, they must have thought that once she gets older and starts traveling (as the face of the family business, no less), she'll need a way to get around. They probably thought this ship did her very little good at 16 because it fits a crew of over 80. What is she going to do with it, after all? They get to buy her a nice gift she'll love, but she can't actually do anything with it until they want her to. I don't think they imagined she'd hire a crew in secret with the help of an international crime organization lol. With how strict they were with her I don't think they would also let her do this through normal means, not until she was old and trained enough to use it for the purposes they'd want her to.

That all said though I think their love for her still factored into it. They might have thought, ok, she's struggling with the things we want her to do so far, so what if we kind of alter our expectations and give her a different role. She'll probably like this better, and yeah we'll still want her to use this ship for the family business, but we're also making this her ship and making it one of the most advanced on the entire ocean. This could have been their way of being a little flexible. That's my take lol.