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Moon and Flame! (spoilers everywhere probably)
Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2020 10:35 pm
by Jade
It must be out in at midnight in a time zone ahead of mine because I just got told it's MINE. HERE WE GO.
Re: Moon and Flame! (spoilers everywhere probably)
Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 5:14 pm
by Hannah
I'm really digging this so far. I don't know why I assumed that Maaya and Saber were super bff from the moment they found each other, and this makes sense. Sark hates her because they think she can see ghosts so it's understandable she isn't SUPER excited to see Saber right away lol.
And on the other side of things we get to see Adelaide trying to take down the machine the first time! I forgot she did this! And I'm already seeing why she says she can only get along with her parents if she doesn't see them very often, oh my GOD.
And this shit.
...forcing herself to keep calm. When having any conversation with her parents, she had learned they were entitled to any emotional outburst they pleased, but that if she were to raise her own voice even slightly, that meant she was the disrespectful one. She had tried discussing this perceived unfairness with them before, with predictable results.
I feel this
so hard.
Re: Moon and Flame! (spoilers everywhere probably)
Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 10:23 pm
by Isabelle
Maaya's side is already breaking my heart, when Hari asks her to steal from that house and she gets confronted, and the ghost thinks she's ok with stealing and she's just thinking no I hate this, ow. This poor girl, I love her so much.
Adelaide is so interesting too. You can tell that naturally she's this happy person even if she's insecure about some things but that at home she just feels so... withdrawn? Which, yeah, I totally get. She's a neuroatypical kid struggling in school and everyone just calls her lazy and ugh yeah Hannah I get this already lol. What I DO like is that so far everyone else in her life doesn't get it either but they're ok with it?? This talk they're having on the train is so pure, Inga is just like, I don't really get it either but that's all good to me and you're too hard on yourself.
Honestly Inga is already becoming one of my favorite characters, she's so efficient and calm, and attentive! And caring! She feels like she's kind of acting like Adelaide's mom or older sister or something it's really sweet.
"I feel like I can always count on you."
"You are my captain. And, I hope, my friend."
I MEAN AHHHHH
Edit: Ok this part where Maaya is telling Saber to go away, and Saber asks how she would feel if she was in a world full of people who can't see her and Maaya says that's all she's ever wanted, that's the first thing to get me to cry a little. I hope this doesn't last long ughhhhhh.
Re: Moon and Flame! (spoilers everywhere probably)
Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 12:35 am
by Jade
Yes! Inga is totally giving me protective mom vibes. She did before but now I'm seeing it more, though I feel like I'm ahead of all you guys lol. She's professional about it but I can feel it. SANNA I get big sister vibes from, she's so fucking cool.
Also, Bindhiya? Hello?? Who is? This shit is so fucking interesting. Maaya is fucking adorable, the way she talks about leaving a tip so hopefully more people will like her! The kids aren't there yet and neither is Rahu so I'm just like ??? when and HOW is this happening.
WAIT NEVERMIND. HOLY SHIT LOL.
Re: Moon and Flame! (spoilers everywhere probably)
Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:32 pm
by Hannah
Yeah Maaya's chapters are just precious. I LOVE how she and Saber have this thing where Saber will brush Maaya's hair when they're both stressed and it helps calm both of them down, it's so fucking cute.
Bindhiya is really interesting. Isabelle brought up in another thread how Maaya said she liked someone before, and I think this is her. And Maaya knows about her before the kids have showed up so this could explain why she's not mentioned. But then the question is what happens to her lol. I'm worried that I already know considering she's already clearly sick.
Oh there's something else I noticed too. Saber clearly doesn't like Rahu and from GW we know why. When Maaya finds the circlet and sword, she refuses to give Hari the sword because she doesn't want someone else in control of her food supply as it's one less choice she gets to make. But with Rahu she's so eager to attach herself to this one other person in the world who understands her that she's willing to accept that from him. Saber tries to convince her of just that and Maaya's like, you don't understand, literally everyone hates me, except this powerful man who wants to make a difference, I will take this from him because it means living, and living has been so hard. And he says that what she has is a gift and not a curse. He knows exactly what will pull her over to his side and she's falling for it because she's so desperate for this positive connection and to be around someone who believes and understands her. This is breaking my HEART.
The worst part is Rahu is really good at this. If I hadn't read GW already I would have no idea he was a bad guy. Even with Saber's point of view I'd just be like ok, he's out of touch at most but his heart is in the right place. Ugh he's written so well and he's such an asshole.
Re: Moon and Flame! (spoilers everywhere probably)
Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 3:39 am
by Jade
Yeah ok I'm way ahead of you LOL. So some spoilers for you below. But YEAH Rahu is so good at getting into her head and manipulating her and shit, fuuuuuck him he is the most LOATHSOME villain I've read in a long time.
Also listen, chapters 26 and 27, it's getting so intense and I have a ton of thoughts but first let me just say, Skarin is absolutely the protective ghost dad of the sea. Between him and Inga she's got much cooler parents. He saves the Windfire from three pirate ships and then he's like "Don't thank me, I was chasing them anyway, didn't even know they were after you." And then just, there's so much going on with Adelaide that I JUST GET. The way she doesn't exactly know what to do when someone is being sarcastic, the way she responds in some situations because it's what she's been trained to know is appropriate rather than understanding WHY, just like, THAT'S ME. Fuuuuuck. This is what I was looking for in seeing Adelaide's side of things, I wanted to see the thought processes and everything behind the scenes, and it's just so ACCURATE.
Chapter 27 though, I was not prepared for just how fucking emotional this chapter got, holy shit, when you get here I gotta know what you think because it's so revealing. Maaya must be protected at all costs.
Re: Moon and Flame! (spoilers everywhere probably)
Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 5:08 pm
by Isabelle
Hannah wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:32 pm
Yeah Maaya's chapters are just precious. I LOVE how she and Saber have this thing where Saber will brush Maaya's hair when they're both stressed and it helps calm both of them down, it's so fucking cute.
Bindhiya is really interesting. Isabelle brought up in another thread how Maaya said she liked someone before, and I think this is her. And Maaya knows about her before the kids have showed up so this could explain why she's not mentioned. But then the question is what
happens to her lol. I'm worried that I already know considering she's already clearly sick.
Oh there's something else I noticed too. Saber clearly doesn't like Rahu and from GW we know why. When Maaya finds the circlet and sword, she refuses to give Hari the sword because she doesn't want someone else in control of her food supply as it's one less choice she gets to make. But with Rahu she's so eager to attach herself to this one other person in the world who understands her that she's willing to accept that from him. Saber tries to convince her of just that and Maaya's like, you don't understand, literally
everyone hates me, except this powerful man who wants to make a difference, I will take this from him because it means living, and living has been so hard. And he says that what she has is a gift and not a curse. He knows exactly what will pull her over to his side and she's falling for it because she's so desperate for this positive connection and to be around someone who believes and understands her. This is breaking my HEART.
The worst part is Rahu is really good at this. If I hadn't read GW already I would have no idea he was a bad guy. Even with Saber's point of view I'd just be like ok, he's out of touch at most but his heart is in the right place. Ugh he's written so well and he's such an asshole.
Yes! This has to be her. Saber figured it out before we even met her. xD But yeah I'm worried. I mean it could be just that things don't work out somehow or maybe she leaves or something? Hari has said a few times that things aren't the way they used to be so maybe she gets fed up or exhausted and just retires or something. The relationship with her and Malika is so good too. This series honestly is just full of such good relationships.
That thing about Rahu though, ouch. I didn't connect those two parts, I remembered what she said to Hari but wow this makes Rahu even WORSE. I'm just wondering how things go wrong! He seems so nice right now and she's totally on board, I wonder if Saber finally gives her a ultimatum or something? They got pretty close when they were getting ready to haunt Farid.
Re: Moon and Flame! (spoilers everywhere probably)
Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2020 3:20 am
by Hannah
I just got to 27 and oh my god. This POOR CHILD. She's #1 on my list of protagonists who deserve a giant hug. This is so indicative of her mindset throughout the whole series. I sometimes wondered why she didn't accept help from Roshan, even if he didn't have a lot to give, but she didn't need to starve, so I thought it was weird. But now I get it. She literally would risk her own life before asking for
any help because she's grown up being told she didn't deserve it. She's internalized so much and to watch her break down in tears because someone has done a nice thing for her is just, UGHH.
I have to say though, this is doing wonders for her character development. It's going well for Adelaide too but Maaya is just so, so well written. She's such an amazing character. And now we know how she got the house she lives in in GW! Which makes it even worse when you remember that Rahu fucking
burns it down.
Adelaide though, I really like seeing this side of her. It's so interesting to see how she developed the relationship with her parents that she did, and her self doubt? Like at first it comes off like she just totally lacks confidence, but then she figures out no, I just haven't been doing the right stuff, when it comes to things I'm good at I'm
very confident. You can already see the change happening as the chapters go on, she slowly starts coming out of her shell. It's really just her house and her parents, she's all outgoing and cheerful and everything until she goes back home and is suddenly subdued and miserable, and it takes her a while and some help to figure it out.
That said, her relationship with Annayet is
fucking adorable, it's so wholesome!
Isabelle wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 5:08 pm
That thing about Rahu though, ouch. I didn't connect those two parts, I remembered what she said to Hari but wow this makes Rahu even WORSE. I'm just wondering how things go wrong! He seems so nice right now and she's totally on board, I wonder if Saber finally gives her a ultimatum or something? They got pretty close when they were getting ready to haunt Farid.
Oh honey. Just you wait. It's bad.
Re: Moon and Flame! (spoilers everywhere probably)
Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2020 4:02 am
by Jade
YUP that's what I'm loving about Adelaide's chapters. Her home just wears her down and breaks her spirit. Not completely because she still escapes but damn it's rough on her. It's cool to see her realize that this isn't a
her problem even if she is still different, it's her whole situation.
ALSO I KNEW I missed something. Look at this shit.
“I’ll try. It should start in a few days. I still need to do some planning, and then I need to come up with a name for my ship...”
“How about... Wave Rider?”
Adelaide shook her head.
“That doesn’t fit her. Besides, I feel like I’ve seen that name somewhere before already.”
I FUCKING KNEW IT LOL. There's the second clue we were waiting for, we called it! Wave Rider is the ship Kai's mom and dad use to sail across the world in the Sanctum. I fucking knew it, 100% Adelaide goes to the Sanctum, this was subtle so I read over it the first time and didn't even think about it.
Re: Moon and Flame! (spoilers everywhere probably)
Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:13 pm
by Hannah
Oh! Yeah I missed that too lol. I thought it was just Asmund being goofy.
I'm a little farther in, and I just... it's happening. I was expecting this and now it's happening lol. First Hari and then the three members of Adelaide's crew. Sanna was earlier on but still impactful because I loved that woman. Bindhiya sounds like she's feeling worse. I'm afraid man LOL.
That said though, that battle against the marauders was so cool. Adelaide is fucking awesome, and SKARIN. Bringing in his ship like that, that was amazing. And then he admits that he feels a little protective of her so of COURSE he was going to show up.
AND THEN THE REVEAL FROM INGA. Fuck I have so many feelings about this. So like, this explains where she has the coat for Maaya in GW. And it totally explains why we've been getting protective mom vibes from Inga, because WELL. Also I noticed that whenever Adelaide goes off to battle with her magic Inga will say something like "she goes where I cannot follow," and she says it when talking about her daughter there when she says "it shattered my heart that she went where I could not follow," and then she says it AGAIN to Adelaide later. So that's a very deliberate "Yo I'm VERY worried about you and I'm terrified you're going to be taken from me too." And the fact that the story she told in Nalmar wasn't a total fabrication? And she uses the SAME STORY for Maaya when she's protecting her from the bronzies. My heart, ugh. This came out of left field for me but it explains so much. Inga is one of my favorite characters in the series now, easy.
Re: Moon and Flame! (spoilers everywhere probably)
Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 11:30 pm
by Jade
Hannah wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:13 pm
Also I noticed that whenever Adelaide goes off to battle with her magic Inga will say something like "she goes where I cannot follow," and she says it when talking about her daughter there when she says "it shattered my heart that she went where I could not follow," and then she says it AGAIN to Adelaide later. So that's a very deliberate "Yo I'm VERY worried about you and I'm terrified you're going to be taken from me too."
You're gonna get me crying all over again LOL. That whole scene was excellent, so many little pieces fell in place from all the books with that. She even says that line in GW right?? Where they're fighting the navy and Adelaide leaves... I gotta look this up. "I would look out for her, but she goes where I cannot follow." YUP. Yeah you're totally right and now this line hits like a hundred times harder rofl. And now see I'm looking back at everything Inga said and did up to then and it all just makes so much sense. When Adelaide asks her how she's always so good and attentive and stuff and Inga is just like "it's my job to anticipate your needs" nah Inga darling you're feeling like she's your kid and you're trying to keep her happy and safe.
I know there's a lot of other shit going on in this book and this part was just a section of one chapter but honestly this is one of the biggest impacting scenes in the whole story so far just because suddenly I feel like I understand EVERYTHING now. The way Inga acts around Adelaide, the way she treats Maaya throughout GW, her being secretive about her past, like, I just GET it now, from this one scene, it's so good. And yeah I forgot about how she even gives a similar cover story for Maaya too, and how she brings it back to how to tell a good lie. And yeah it was sad because she was talking about her daughter, but not in the same way, it was more like... oh shit here's the final puzzle piece. I'm so glad we got to see that, that's A+ shit right there.
Re: Moon and Flame! (spoilers everywhere probably)
Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 4:13 am
by Hannah
Yeah exactly. I'm glad she got her time to shine and got her own little bit of backstory. It makes me wonder just how much planning was done for GW when this book is four years of story for a shitton of characters (I'm seriously considering making a list of all the regular-ish characters just to see) and it all lines up so well with GW. Like this little story for Inga answers questions not just from earlier in this book but later in the next one lol. It's happened a lot.
You know what? The more I read, the more GW feels like it picked up in the middle of something, and that this is how it all should have started. I'm almost done so I can see it, the transition is going to be smooth right into GW from Maaya's perspective. GW is good on its own but the more I learn the more stuff like MAF seems almost necessary.
Speaking of almost being done, I fucking called it with Bindhiya. And then Malika left. And you know what, I had to go back and read again to be sure, but I THINK only a few days pass between when Malika says she's leaving and when Bindhiya dies. Maaya has no idea because she's busy for weeks. I know Bindhiya loved Maaya but with her organization kind of falling apart and then Malika leaving, I think that was too much on her. It would have been one thing if Maaya went in to hear that she had died like... the previous day, but this? This was so much worse (because of COURSE lol). She gets there and everything is empty and she missed her by weeks and had no idea.
More positive note though, the kids are so fucking cute? Kalil playing the protective brother is just EVERYTHING to me. I know I was worried about getting to learn more about the kids because we know what happens but I'm so glad we do, all the scenes with them together are just so wholesome.
Re: Moon and Flame! (spoilers everywhere probably)
Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:55 pm
by Jade
Hannah wrote: ↑Wed Sep 09, 2020 4:13 am
You know what? The more I read, the more GW feels like it picked up in the middle of something, and that this is how it all should have started. I'm almost done so I can see it, the transition is going to be smooth right into GW from Maaya's perspective. GW is good on its own but the more I learn the more stuff like MAF seems almost necessary.
I just finished and this is how I feel. This was so, so fucking good, and it just goes right into where GW picks up. I think Isabelle called it? This was what we needed. We get to see the big points like the buildup of Adelaide's crew, how she met Skarin and became a Blackfin, how Maaya found the kids ad Saber and met Rahu, etc. I'm going to move on to reading GW again and I know that EVERYTHING in that book is going to have so much more weight to it now that I know all this.
ALSO, now we know how Adelaide called in that fleet at the end of GW, when she rescues Vanhanen and he gives her that goldpin! And she's like "idk when I'd ever need a fleet or anything but ok."
I have so many thoughts but I need to like... sit with them and think for a little bit lol. Just a few highlights. I'm so appreciative of this character development, I love it, it's clear that so much thought and care went into this. I love all the characters who are just there for each other and supportive and loving and how they each find their own families in different ways. OBVIOUSLY I loved Adelaide but getting to see inside her head was so much better than I thought. I really see myself there. I know Kay and I talked a lot about this because she wanted to make sure she was writing the character well and omg did she ever. It's a meme by now but she's my favorite character and these 20 chapters of hers were some of the most enjoyable things I've ever read.
I'll leave it at that for now, there's a lot more in my head but I gotta sort it out first. I fucking loved this and now I'm gonna jump in GW. Join me Hannah?? (I'd say Isy too but I think we left her behind LOL.)
Re: Moon and Flame! (spoilers everywhere probably)
Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 7:29 pm
by Hannah
I can tell you really enjoyed it because you aren't screaming in all caps and asking what comes next lol.
I'll probably break up my thoughts on this because I have a lot but I want to start with Adelaide because her chapters kinda surprised me. I knew I was going to enjoy them but there was more to them than I thought and it ended up really interesting. I like the way her confidence and growth is handled. When we meet her in GW, from Maaya's perspective, she's one of the most confident and straightforward characters in the book, and not only that but she says that she always was. But when we meet her in MAF, we see something different, and we see her struggling with a lot of stuff, and she doesn't think she's confident at all.
Near the beginning I was thinking ok, she gets better at it and then talks about herself in the past like she was always super confident because maybe she's embarrassed or something. But it ended up more complicated than that. She was always pretty confident when it came to stuff she loved, it was just that she wasn't always allowed to do those things. She was stifled. Whenever she was away from home she was another person, and she was GOOD. She was a pro at libris, she was a good captain even if she was inexperienced, and she wasn't BAD at conversation she just didn't understand how it worked. Eventually she connected all these things and figured out yeah, I have always known what I've wanted, and I know I'm good at it, it's just that there was so much other shit going on I never got to understand it. And I like that a lot. It kind of puts her parents and her home in a more sinister place, but it makes her so much more interesting as a character, because it wasn't just "character is scared until they practice and they aren't anymore." I mean I should have expected as much because character development in this series is amazing but yeah I really enjoyed it.
Speaking of her parents I also liked that it wasn't a totally happy ending either. They came to a compromise and things are better but still a little bit tense, and that's okay. Given the way they acted and the way Adelaide always talks about them, this makes perfect sense, why she likes going home but doesn't like to stay. I mean shit in GW she's still going through that reconciliation phase and I think part of her wants to destroy the machine because she's still thinking about her parents.
Also! The subtle hints here and there about what's going on with Marit that don't come to a conclusion in MAF are the perfect setup for what happens in GW. They were just offhanded things to where I was a little confused at first, like why is this here when we don't see where they end up, and then I thought that's probably the point. From Adelaide's perspective she's not going to really get it either but when Marit comes forward in GW with what's on her mind it all makes sense.
And finally I just loved Adelaide's own protective streak. A lot of it seems to come from the way she was brought up as an elite, part of her training was literally to put herself in harm's way to save others. And she takes that on even maybe a little too much and too personally. When her crew is in danger she jumps over to multiple enemy ships by herself, she dives overboard during a storm to save someone, she confronts the dude being creepy to Annayet... I liked seeing this from her perspective too because now it explains why she acts the way she does when Maaya shows up and we can't see in her head anymore. And we even got that little story where some dude calls in his silverpin to escape town on Adelaide's ship, which is probably big on her mind when Maaya comes. Can you imagine? She's probably thinking, oh no, who's on my ship this time, another murderer? Except, it's the girl she's got a crush on! The relief is probably INTENSE and might impact why she doesn't ask questions at first. That and Inga interrogated the first guy and then she was looking after Maaya when she came aboard so just... fuck, yeah, I love this. Honestly I thought we'd get like a few moments here and there in MAF we could point to and be like "oh hey I remember that." But instead it's just EVERYTHING. It's so good.
Re: Moon and Flame! (spoilers everywhere probably)
Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:33 am
by Hannah
I decided to write up that list of all the characters in the series who get some decent "screen time," like those who are more than just characters in passing and get some history and things, and well...
Maaya Sahni
Saber
Roshan Kulkarni
Styx
MIlo
Sylvia
Kim
Kalil
Sovaan
Rahu
Hari
Bindhiya
Malika
Len
Farid
Manoj
Adelaide Sol
Felix Sol
Cajsa Sol
Marit Sol
Heikki Makinen
Annayet Makinen
Asmund
Inga Strand
David
Gunnar
Halvar
Cymreiges Baughan
Sanna Dahlgren
Valter Ostberg
Engstrom
Brahe
Captain Vanhanen
Captain Brix
Captain Nowak
Captain Cyril
Skarin
Theo
Tassos
Praetor Forsberg (ish, we get to hear about him again, he apparently dealt with Adelaide the first time!)
Amoli
The Peterson twins
Holm
And I think I've probably missed people, and this doesn't include a bunch of Adelaide's crew or a bunch of the people Maaya meets, but... fuck. Now that I wrote it out I realize how BIG the cast of this series is. And they all get their time. I love it.